Foster Parent Well

Fostering Connections: Using Food to Bridge Gaps and Empower Children with Chef Kibby

Nicole T Barlow , Guest Chef Kibby Season 2 Episode 31

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Chef Kibby shares how he uses food and hunger as a language of connection, drawing from 25 years of culinary expertise and 16 years as a foster and adoptive dad. Discover his unique perspective on how the simple act of cooking can bridge gaps and build lasting relationships. With personal anecdotes and biblical insights, we explore how food has been historically used as a relational tool and how you can implement these practices in your own home.

The conversation uncovers the hidden emotional needs that surface at the dinner table, where food becomes more than just nourishment. We address the emotional and physiological hunger that children from challenging backgrounds experience and how parents can recognize and fulfill these needs. By focusing on inclusion rather than perfection, we can transform everyday kitchen interactions into powerful bonding moments that go beyond just eating.

Empowering children by giving them a voice in everyday decisions, like choosing pizza toppings, can significantly enhance their sense of agency and emotional well-being. We discuss practical ways parents can create environments where children feel heard and valued. As we close, we invite you to explore additional resources, including our Hunger for Connection podcast, and offer a heartfelt prayer for guidance and peace in fostering meaningful connections through the universal language of food.

Find Chef Kibby:
Main website - https://chefkibby.com
Hunger for Connection Podcast - Spotify Apple iHeart Amazon Music YouTube
Listen to my song Fostering Joy on Spotify


Mentioned in the show:
TBRI: https://child.tcu.edu/about-us/tbri/#sthash.9fvSeXaK.dpbs

Get my FREE 2025 Priorities Guide: https://stan.store/nicoletbarlow/p/get-the-priority-reset-guide-now

January 27th Wellness Coaching Group: https://www.fasterwaycoach.com/?aid=nicolebarlow



Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we have real candid, faith-filled conversations about all things foster care, adoption and trauma. I'm your host, nicole T Barlow. I'm a certified parent trainer, a certified health coach and an adoptive parent myself. This is a space where you can find support so that you can care for your kids with a steadfast faith, endurance and joy. I want you to foster parent guys. My name is Nicole T Barlow and I am your host. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

This is the first full week of January in 2025. And I don't know about you, but my week has kicked off with a bang. I'm sure for many of you that is true as well. I know in the United States right now we are dealing with lots of weather issues, lots and lots of snow. There's wildfires in California. There's lots going on. I live in the South. We don't currently have any snow, but we are gearing up for snow actually this weekend, and that is a big deal. Where I live, everything shuts down, with even the threat of snow, so we are still a couple of days out from when the snow is supposed to hit and already people are talking shutdowns and things that are closing looking ahead. So that is an eventful time for a lot of us, I know. Also for my kids this week has been a little bumpy as we have transitioned from holiday mode into back to school, back to chores, back to routine. Routine is so good for my kids, that regular schedule where it is predictable and they can depend on it. But that transition from we've been a little more flexible and they've had a little more free time to now you have things that you have to get done every single day. It has been a little bumpy but we are still moving forward and it has been nice to kind of reflect on a lot of the day-to-day transitional stuff my kids don't struggle with as much anymore as they have matured, but still I still see that when we face big seasonal transitions they're still struggling a little bit to make that shift. But we will get there one step at a time, right.

Speaker 1:

Another big thing that has been going on this week I am a health and wellness coach for foster and adoptive parents and I have a six-week coaching group. One of my groups just started on January 6th, you guys, and they are rocking and rolling, they are on fire. I will tell you just the energy around foster and adoptive parents this year, really starting to understand that they need to take care of themselves. This year, really starting to understand that they need to take care of themselves, that they need to care for their health, has been incredible. And you guys, my groups, are killing it right now. They are really encouraging one another, just super active and totally gung-ho on making sure that their self-care is a priority for this year.

Speaker 1:

If you did miss out on my January 6th group but want to look at bettering your health for 2025, I do have a group that's starting January 27th and if you go ahead and register now, you can get access to the app and all of the workouts, the meal plan, all of those things. You can go ahead and get access to the app and all of the workouts, the meal plan, all of those things. You can go ahead and get access to that now, a couple of weeks early, so that you get a head start. You guys, don't wait on taking care of your health. Your kids are depending on you to be at your best. If there's any way that I can help you take a step forward to really work on self-care habits, please let me know. I also have a 2025 Priorities Guide that has a lot of that information on it as well, and I will link all of that stuff in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

All right? Well, let's get started with today's show. Today we are talking to Chef Kibbe. Chef Kibbe is a chef with over 25 years of food experience and 16 years as a biological, foster and adoptive dad. Chef Kibbe offers a unique and practical perspective on how parents and caregivers can support the mental and emotional development of their children by understanding the hunger for connection. Welcome, chef Kibbe, to the show. We're so glad to have you here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Speaker 1:

So tell everybody a little bit about what you do.

Speaker 2:

What I do? Well, I travel the country to foster adoptive parenting conferences and then also host my own podcast called the Hunger for Connection, speaking to other foster and adoptive caregivers like myself about the difficulties that come about when we're inviting disconnected children into our homes and trying to provide connection with them, and how we can use both the language of food and hunger to help understand the things that kiddos are going through, while at the same time using the activity that we go through every day of feeding and being fed as a way of communicating connection to disconnected children in a really helpful and accessible way for most parents and caregivers.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I'm sure that's super, super impactful for foster and adoptive parents to learn about all of those things. How did you get involved in what you're doing now?

Speaker 2:

Well, I am a chef. I've been in the food service industry for over 25 years, a certified chef, former culinary instructor. I had my own catering business and event space where we're doing hands-on kitchen sessions and things of that nature, and while that was taking place I was also my wife and I were foster and adoptive parents as well, and these two things kind of came together, not by my own doing, but because of COVID. Covid hit and overnight, it would seem, anyone who had a business that revolved around getting large groups of people together in public to eat, that kind of disappeared overnight. And so that is when I not only lost my business the catering business, the event space we had to shutter.

Speaker 2:

I lost this sense of external validation for myself as a culinary professional.

Speaker 2:

I also lost my escape route because I was using my job and the benefit that I was giving to other families being able to take something off their plate by putting something on their plate. I was using that as a way of escaping the problems that I was having as a foster, adoptive dad, because I wasn't finding it easy and I know that's going to resonate with a lot of people who are listening to the sound of my voice right now. It didn't come easily to me, and rather than doing the work that I now know that I needed to do, I decided to escape into my work and literally just pray to God that he would equip my wife to be able to handle these things better. And that came to a screeching halt when COVID happened, and so I came back home very depressed and knowing that I couldn't escape this any longer. And so, with a lot of prayer, with a lot of trauma-informed counseling, we brought in a TBRI therapist into our home to help us through this transition.

Speaker 2:

And during that time of kind of escaping back into my own kitchen, which was a place where I received a lot of comfort and felt some control in my out-of-control world, is when I began to see the potential in the kitchen. I can remember this it was a Tuesday afternoon. I was doing some cooking prep when this child that God had placed into my home, with whom I did not have a very good relationship, came in and asked me if she could chop up my vegetable scraps. Why would you even want to do that? Why do you even want to be with me, let alone handle a sharp knife, when you can barely tie your shoes all that well and do something that wasn't even going to be all that helpful for me in producing food? I mean, these are just scraps that we're going to be feeding to the chickens anyway.

Speaker 2:

But it was in that moment and in future moments of allowing those yeses to happen, when I began to realize that there's more to food than just feeding our bodies. And I think I knew that. Being a caterer and being a culinary professional, I knew that food did more for our bodies than just provide us fuel. There is something that allows us to be relational when we are fed, that allows us to be relational when we are fed, and it was that experience that began this rabbit hole journey that I've been on in digging into, really, the neuroscience of how we experience food and how I believe God intended for food to be a way for us to better understand how to be relational and to even equip us to be more relational with one another. And if there's anything that foster and adoptive parents long for is helping these children to be more relational both with themselves and with us, with our homes and with the people around us.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. I think you said a couple of really key things there, the first being about how you kind of dealt with your I'm going to call them insecurities but your struggles in, you know, foster and adoptive parenting when things get hard right, your inclination was to go to the thing that you knew that you did really well, and I think that's true of all of us and I think that's a way that we can see that we're under some point of stress. If we're hiding from something right and running to something that we know that we do really well, we know we're going to get accolades and praise for doing it, validation for doing it. We're going to feel good doing it because we feel satisfied in doing this thing, because we know that we do it well. I think that that can be a sign to parents that maybe there's something we need to work on if we're hiding from those relationships, because I think it's something that we all do. I train foster and adoptive parents for a living and I saw myself doing that right, like I looked forward to my training weekends because training parents on how to do it was a lot easier than actually doing it myself. Like I had read all the books, I knew all the theories, I could teach all the strategies, but actually putting into practice was much, much, much harder. So I love that you touched on that and that the Lord used COVID to kind of bump up against that a little bit, to cause you to grow in your relationship with your kids.

Speaker 1:

And the other thing I love that you have combined this love for food and cooking and attachment and really finding ways to find connection through food, because I do think God has purposed food as a relational tool. If you see, all of the celebrations in the Bible are centered around food festivities, all of the things that they do were centered around food. The Last Supper, jesus gathered the disciples together to eat. Right, that's how they were relational and I think for our kids that can be huge because you're meeting their need. So you're meeting an attachment need. You're going through that attachment cycle with them through providing food, but you're also doing it in a way that leads to connection between the two of you.

Speaker 1:

I think that's so important. I am not great at cooking with my kids because, well, it's kind of like what you had said in that I just want to get it done. This doesn't seem helpful. In the moment it seems easier just to kind of do the task and be efficient in doing the task Right. So how did you kind of overcome that hurdle Right and how do you help educate parents on overcoming that hurdle?

Speaker 2:

I'm still overcoming it.

Speaker 1:

Well, because we're tired and, at the end of the day, we just want to get it done.

Speaker 2:

And I am a chef. You know I have a certain thing. I have a certain way that I want things to be done.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure.

Speaker 2:

I want to have that beautiful plate that my family is all oohing, aahing it over and I take a picture of it and post it to Instagram again. For that external validation that I need, I learned to move the goalpost validation that I need, I learned to move the goalpost. I learned that as much as all of those things are good and healthy and beneficial to want to create a delicious and healthy and satisfying meal for my family. That food can do even more than that.

Speaker 2:

That there's something even better that I can be shooting for, that I can have a meal that doesn't get done on time and doesn't meet my high culinary expectations.

Speaker 2:

But because I involved one of my children in some, even in some menial task like scrubbing a little bit of dirt off the potatoes or peeling a carrot or stirring a pot or breaking apart the broccoli florets, they will take credit for the entire meal and I'm okay with that because inside of me I know where my validation comes from Right.

Speaker 2:

But the connecting activity that takes place neurobiologically in a child when we involve them in this process of creating something that they are going to put into their bodies and they're going to sit across the table and watch you put into your body that, this deeply embodied experience, which I believe is actually the most deeply embodied experience we have as human beings, of feeding and being fed in the community with other people.

Speaker 2:

It hits every sensory receptor in our entire body and many of those sensory receptors that are involved in tasting food are directly connected to those parts of our brain that are connected to emotional memories. If we can harness that simply by letting our child set the table or pretend to wash the dishes or, again. Stirring a pot on the stovetop to give them access to that is incredibly powerful. To that is incredibly powerful, and I sometimes kick myself for not seeing it sooner. But it took an act of God to get me out of my own comfort zone of what cooking provided to me personally, to provide me with something even stronger relationally with my child and with the children that God has placed into my home, and then to be able to share that with other parents and caregivers, to know you don't have to be a chef and in fact, in some ways, it's better that you aren't a chef, because then you don't have so many barriers to overcome as I've had.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, my food, the food on my, on my plate, on my table, is not going to look pretty, no matter who does it. So might as well be the kids, right?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, because you are giving them something that our words and that our parenting just can't provide. It's something deeper, it's something more physiological. To connect this deep idea of hunger, that hunger is something that is not just about a desire for food. It is a desire for peace in our body. That's what hunger really is. It's more than just I need fuel. It is, there is a peace that is missing in my body.

Speaker 2:

P-e-a-c-e, not P-I-E-C-E I had to remember how to spell on the fly there but hunger is a desire for peace in relationship to our own body, that there is something, there's a deficiency, and that deficiency our body is communicating to our brain so that it can decipher this message and then decide to do something.

Speaker 2:

So that's really quickly, the four Ds of hunger. I've learned that that applies to every relationship, that in every relationship when we're having a struggle, when my child is having trouble coping with navigating through a transition through the day or having to be told no, or just something that they're struggling with, there's a piece they're missing piece in their body. There's a discomfort that they are physiologically experiencing and that physiological discomfort is as a result of some sort of a deficiency that their body thinks that it has and their brain is trying to decipher that message that their body is giving them so that they can decide to do something with it. And when you have a disconnected child, nicole, that physiological connection between those four Ds is going to be off in some way, shape or form. It's off the rails. And that is why we experience so many relational difficulties, because we expect them to respond the way that we would, but we don't necessarily see the hunger for connection that they're experiencing.

Speaker 1:

Right, right. Well, because on some level our bodies have probably experienced that connection and so, even if we're not having that in this moment, we have it stored in our body right. We have the memory, the sense within our body that we know connection exists. We know we have that even if we're not connecting with someone right in that moment, where sometimes our kids haven't experienced that level of connection and trust and attachment to other people, because a lot of times the trust isn't there right, and so they feel that void within their system. I think that's a great way, and I mean food is something tangible that we can do. There's so much, I think, that we can't fix, that we can't do for our kids. That food is a way that we can meet their need, that we can help fill that void and bring connection with them in a way that is tangible, you know, and doable for us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's tangible and practical. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and I mean, while you were talking too, I was thinking about you, were talking about how the kids are seeing you eat the food that they've created. And in the, you know, when we look at attachment and the factors of attachment, one of the key factors of attachment is being able to give and receive care, and one of the ways that we give and receive care is through food right. And so if our kids not only are able to receive that care from us us helping make the meal and give them that nutrition but if they're able to contribute and to care for others in that way and we can teach them how to do that, that is huge huge, huge.

Speaker 2:

It's tremendously helpful and if you think about it, it's kind of the natural progression that we would see in a biological child. There's kind of four different stages of feeding. There's the first stage where they just have to be fed. They just have to be fed because they don't understand hunger at all and so they have to have someone see them. They have to be seen in order so that they can be soothed. Then the next kind of stage is then understanding that they're being fed by someone, that you're not just providing food, but they are seeing you providing them food. There's a relational aspect to it.

Speaker 2:

Then the third stage is seeing you prepare food for them, that it's not just you providing for their needs but them seeing that you are actually taking time and effort to create this food for them.

Speaker 2:

And then the fourth and most intimate part of this progression of a relationship with food is then being able to prepare it together with someone else or for someone else.

Speaker 2:

And that's the natural progression we see with our biological children. And you can see how these different stages of development of our relationship with food, of being able to just be fed to be able to ask for food, to see food being prepared and then to be able to prepare it for or with someone is the same kind of neurological progression that we want to see in all of our children, of being soothed and being seen, experiencing safety and then deeply embodying security and all of this around feeding and being fed. Now, when we have a child that's come into our home that may be two or five or 15, they may be neurologically expressing some of those needs that we would experience in a newborn or a very young child because of that disconnect. But we have the advantage of being able to use food at almost any of those four stages to be able to ratchet up the connection that we would desire for that child. A 15-year-old we can invite into the kitchen and allow them to do something, whereas with a newborn we just couldn't.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I mean, on top of everything else, you're providing life skills, right, that we want our kids to learn anyway. So tell me a little bit about the changes that you saw in your home when you started making this shift.

Speaker 2:

Well, first of all, let's be honest, the changes that you saw in your home when you started making this shift. Well, first of all, let's be honest, the change in my home had to start with me first. I had to start by realizing that, in those moments when my child and I were not having a very good interaction, that, as much as I felt like they needed to change, it really was me that had to start the change, that both of us were hungry. My child is hungry for something in her body and I'm hungry for something in mine, because she has disturbed the peace that I'm trying to experience in my home and in my life. That I could not rely on her to feed my hunger for connection, but that she was relying on me to feed her, and so I had to.

Speaker 2:

The change had to start with me of realizing that I needed to find something else to feed me, that I whether it be just a changing in my perspective of being fed physically myself, being fed in relationship with my wife, with other people and to realize and to understand that the attitudes and behaviors that my child was exhibiting were as a result of a type of hunger, the same hunger that I have felt countless times before in my life and, let's face it, when we're hungry we're not very relational.

Speaker 2:

It's true for me, as it's true for anybody that I've seen come into the doors of any restaurant or food service operation where I've worked. And being able to see that and recognize that in moments when we're having difficulty, allowed me to change my attitude and my perspective toward my child to not be so fixed on the need for compliance or for obedience, but also understanding that there's some need in her that's not being met in that moment. Not to excuse the behavior but to understand it, to be able to come at it with a touch of empathy and compassion, and that's a complete game changer for me.

Speaker 1:

Logically, we all know that we shouldn't be looking to our kids to meet our needs. But the reality is is that our brains are looking for that relational connection and so when there's disconnect there, it's not something we're consciously seeking from our child, but in the background our brains are reacting out of fear, like oh no, this doesn't feel relationally safe. And so to kind of step over that a little bit, come outside of that, to be able to logically see the need in our child when they're disconnecting relationally, is going against the grain. You know, logically we can look at it one way, but our brains are reacting instead of us, you know, being proactive in that. So to step outside of that is really hard. I mean, it can be really challenging for parents, but I think that shift in perspective, like you said, is key. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Hunger is such a great method for us to level the playing field.

Speaker 2:

Because I may not know what that child is experiencing in that moment, because I don't. I haven't lived the life that he or she has, I haven't lived with those experiences, I don't know what's going on in her mind at that particular time, but I know what it feels like to be hungry, and so if I can put myself in that place of understanding that there is some sort of a disconnect in this person, in this child and this goes the same for, you know, grown adults too that can get unhinged as well that there is, there is, there is a piece that is lacking, that there is a deficiency that their body is experiencing and their brain is decoding it in a way that is, that they are deciding to to act or to speak or to respond in this particular way. And again, that's not to to condone any behaviors that can be can be negative, can be destructive, but to understand it and to come at it with a sense of empathy and compassion that can actually lead to connection rather than causing more disconnect.

Speaker 1:

That's a really big shift for parents to be able to make. Well, what about? I don't know if y'all dealt with this, but I know a lot of foster and adoptive parents do what about food issues? Right, struggles with food. Does this kind of creating relationship around food do you feel like that helps in some of those ways, or do you think it's kind of disconnected a little bit?

Speaker 2:

It's very much connected and in fact, I would say that understanding the hunger for connection helps us to understand food issues in a different way as well. To understand that because food is such a deeply embodied experience that in many cases, the issues that we're seeing with our children with relationship to food whether it be overeating or undereating or picky eating or hoarding food, whatever it is that there's a good chance that it's not about the food, yeah, but it's about what the neurological experience that the child is having is that is being cued, that is being triggered by the food, whether it be the color or the texture or the aroma. Obviously we want our children to be fed, we want them to get all the nutrients that they need, but, approaching it from a sense of curiosity to know why is it, what's going on in this child's mind, what is the discomfort or the disconnect that they're experiencing that is behind these behaviors toward food, so that we can validate their feelings while also trying to help them work through them. Does that?

Speaker 1:

make sense yes, absolutely, Absolutely, and I've seen that in parents as well when they start to understand the back end of what's happening in the brain when kids eat right or seek out food, seek out certain things like understanding that eating something sweet triggers serotonin in the body. And so sometimes when our kids are craving sweets all the time, it's not really sweets that they're craving, they're craving that serotonin right. So when you understand that back end, it helps you meet their real underlying need and not get so hung up on the food itself.

Speaker 2:

Definitely.

Speaker 1:

Well, so tell me, what do you teach parents to do? What are some practical tips that parents can take away right and implement in their own homes?

Speaker 2:

Well, first of all, don't put so much pressure on yourself to feel like you have to learn anything new or do anything new when it comes to the kitchen. If you're trying to connect with your child, you don't need to learn any new recipes. You don't need to find out anything new from a culinary standpoint. You can do whatever it is you're already doing in the kitchen, no matter how little it is or how uncomplicated it may be. There are opportunities for you to connect with your child, no matter what you do in the kitchen, and if you have questions about things that ways of looking at recipes from a standpoint of connection, I'm more than happy to help. I love getting questions from people that I can answer either through email or by sharing this information on the Hunger for Connection podcast, but there are opportunities, no matter what you were already doing in the kitchen, to connect with a child.

Speaker 2:

I think the most important thing that your listeners can do is begin to expand your understanding of what hunger is.

Speaker 2:

That hunger is more than just what our body experiences when we lack food is that hunger is more than just what our body experiences when we lack food.

Speaker 2:

It's what our body experiences when we lack peace in any of our relationships, whether it be our relationship with our own body, our relationship with another person, our relationship with our environment around us or our relationship with our sense of hope of what the future is going to bring. These are ideas of being soothed, seen, safe and secure. All of those are types of hunger and, if you can allow yourself, rather than saying what is the problem I have to fix with this child, ask yourself what is the hunger that I can feed for this child? Then you begin to open up the empathy and compassion that God has already given you and not approach these things with such judgment and criticism, but approach it from a standpoint of what can I do to help this child through this discomfort, so that we can have comfort together? And I think that that can be such a healthy method, a perspective, a viewpoint to deal with the disconnect that these disconnected children are dealing with.

Speaker 1:

That seems super practical and very doable for parents. I don't think that that seems too big right. A lot of times I think professionals put out these big things for us to do and it feels too big to be able to accomplish in a day. But I think that feels very doable for parents to be able to implement. I have one question Does it count to have a child help you order pizza?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. You're giving them voice, you're giving them a choice. That's a win, absolutely. I mean you give them a choice between pepperoni and sausage and you're okay with either one, but they don't know that they don't have to know that.

Speaker 2:

You've given them choice, you've given them voice, and for these children who have come from hard places, a lot of choices have been made for them. They've been made with their benefit in mind, but they've been made for them and on their behalf. And so giving them voice, even if it's just picking what goes on the bread for their sandwich or what pizza you're going to order from your favorite pizza place, that can have an incredibly connecting impact for your child. So take advantage of those opportunities when you can.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. Well, Chef Kibbe, tell us where we can find you.

Speaker 2:

Easiest place is chefkibbecom. That's where you can find out more about my speaking ministry and where I might be coming to speak publicly. You could also subscribe to the Hunger for Connection podcast there or wherever you're listening to this show.

Speaker 1:

Okay, awesome, and I will link all of those things in the show notes as well. Well, chef Kibbe, we're so thankful that you're here today. I know it's going to provide a lot of good information for listeners. Thank you so much. As always, be sure to subscribe so that you are made aware each and every week when a new show is posted, and if you are enjoying the show, be sure to leave a review, because it helps other foster and adoptive parents find this podcast.

Speaker 1:

As we wrap up, let me pray for us. Heavenly Father, thank you that you have made us relational beings. Lord, you are a relational God and you have demonstrated to us what it looks like to be in relationship. Lord, thank you for making food. Thank you for creating environments where we can connect with our children, where we can connect with one another and really be filled up. Lord, I thank you for Chef Kibbe and his messaging, lord, that we are all really just looking for your peace. Would you give that to us today, lord? Would you give us all your peace? Help us to walk in that each and every day. Lord, we love you, we trust you.