Foster Parent Well
Jump into "Foster Parent Well with Nicole T Barlow," where the adventure of Christian foster and adoptive parenting gets a little easier, a lot more joyful, and deeply fulfilling. Nicole's here with a mission: to guide you in parenting with a heart full of steadfast faith, unshakable endurance, and infectious joy.
This podcast is your cozy nook in the vast world of parenting, blending laughs, learning, and lots of love. It’s where self-care meets faith-filled encouragement, and mindset shifts help you navigate the rollercoaster of fostering and adopting. For every parent out there looking to refill their emotional and spiritual tanks, Nicole's got you covered with stories, tips, and expert advice that speak directly to the soul of a Christian foster or adoptive parent.
With "Foster Parent Well," it's like sitting down with a good friend who gets it—the highs, the lows, and everything in between. Nicole dives into the unique challenges and beautiful moments of parenting children with trauma, all while reminding you that taking time for yourself isn't just nice; it's essential for providing the stable, loving home these kiddos need.
So, why not make this journey together? Join Nicole and a vibrant community of faith-driven parents, all dedicated to transforming their lives and the lives of their foster and adopted children. Tune into "Foster Parent Well with Nicole T Barlow" for your weekly dose of encouragement, laughter, and wisdom. Hit subscribe, and let's start fostering and adopting with faith, endurance, and a joy that lights up the room.
Foster Parent Well
Foster Care Narratives with Johnna Stein
Jonna Stein's "Untangling Hope" beautifully captures the intricate emotions of a foster child navigating trauma and the longing for belonging. In our discussion, we explore themes of empathy, understanding trauma, and the importance of fostering conversations about these experiences among parents, children, and their communities.
• Exploring the journey of a foster child in "Untangling Hope"
• Understanding the difference between fitting in and belonging
• Importance of compassion in caregiving
• Insights into a child's perspective on trauma and resilience
• Facilitation of dialogue about foster care in families and communities
• Call for empathy and education about experiences of children in care
Links:
Johnnastein.com
Order the Book: https://www.amazon.com/Untangling-Hope-Johnna-Stein/dp/B0CY2B1TRB
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we have real candid, faith-filled conversations about all things foster care, adoption and trauma. I'm your host, nicole T Barlow. I'm a certified parent trainer, a certified health coach and an adoptive parent myself. This is a space where you can find support so that you can care for your kids with a steadfast faith, endurance and joy. I want you to foster parent well. I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
Speaker 1:I hope your January is off to a great start. We got some snow last week and my kids were living their best life. I live in Georgia, so we don't get snow very often. I think I mentioned it last week on the podcast that they were super excited about it. Y'all. They were outside for hours, did not complain about the cold, didn't complain about anything, and we didn't even have that much snow, but they were having the time of their lives. So I hope that your January is going well. I know January can always be super rough because a lot of times our kids are cooped up inside instead of being able to get out a little bit more, so it can be rough on all of us, but I hope that you are hanging in there Well.
Speaker 1:Today we are talking to Jonna Stein. Jonna is the author of a new book called Untangling Hope. She serves as the VP of Creative Resources at Promise 686. She also is a TBRI practitioner, an award-winning children's writer and a debut author of this new novel, untangling Hope. That's for kids ages 9 through 13.
Speaker 1:Once her two kids went off to college, she and her Dutch husband became foster parents and have cared for more than 30 bonus children. They try to keep their home and hearts open to the next child or young adult who needs a soft place to land. She loves developing resources to equip churches to serve and to find their fit in the child welfare continuum. I think you are going to love this conversation that I have with Jonna. We're going to dive into her book, which is about a foster child, and we are going to talk about some of the challenge that her character faces, on top of how that relates to our kids that are in our homes and what we do about it. So let's get to it. Well, hey, jada, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to have you on here today.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much, Nicole. I'm excited to be here. I've been listening to your podcast and I just love what you've been sharing.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Well, tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I think very important is I'm married to a really great husband who is actually from Holland, so we have lived on both sides of the pond, as we say, but our recent stint in the US has been for 17 years, so we've been here for a while, and I think it was about in 2012,.
Speaker 2:Our hearts were being stirred sort of to do foster care or think about foster care in our church. At the same time, I was sort of thinking about I really wanted to work at a nonprofit and applied to a bunch of nonprofits but didn't get accepted for an interview anywhere. And then, out of the blue, got a call from a friend who said hey, I'm going to be working at Promise 686, this adoption and foster care nonprofit, and they need another person. Do you want to work with me? And so that's how I got invited to work at Promise long ago in 2012. And at the same time was becoming a foster family. So we started our impact training the same month that I started my job. So I was kind of learning as I went, so it was like a fire hose.
Speaker 1:You're getting it from all sides. You're getting the parent side of the training. You're getting the parent side of the training. You're getting the professional side of the training. You're just jumping right in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was how I got started in what I'm doing. So I've been there, for I've been at Promise for 12 years and my job has grown a little bit since then. And now I get to help write our curriculum and trainings for the churches who set up foster and adoption ministries, which we call family advocacy ministries, and so I like to pinch myself sometimes because I think gosh, part of my job is I get to write for a living, so it's really fun.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So now my church is a Promise Church. But for those people that don't know what Promise 686 is, why don't you tell everybody what you guys do?
Speaker 2:Right. So our name is based on a verse, psalm 68, 6, which is God sets the lonely in families, and we really just love to mobilize the local church to serve vulnerable families and children. So that means you know, anywhere on the continuum before foster care, which we you know refer to as prevention, or once children are in foster care, or then after foster care, where they're either reuniting with their families or connecting with a forever family. So our job is really just to empower and equip and mobilize the local church to do that work.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. I love that mission. It's such a beautiful gift to see the church kind of rise up in this world, in this ministry in our communities, to be able to serve children and families in that way, so I love the support that you guys provide. Well, you also just finished another book, so tell me a little bit about you writing and what that looks like. I know you talked about for Promise that you write curriculum, but what does it look like to write in a different style?
Speaker 2:Well, so I've always wanted to write and I've written poetry just kind of for fun and I used to write children's church curriculum and that was really creative. It wasn't a book, but it was. You know, you're writing skits and things like that. And then when we moved to the United States, I decided, okay, I'm really going to do this writing thing. United States, I decided, okay, I'm really going to do this writing thing. And so I started writing another middle grade.
Speaker 2:That was my first novel and it was pretty terrible. But the person who reviewed it said that I had good voice and I was like, okay, that's hard to buy or fix, but I can fix a plot, I could do that. So I just kept working at it and in the meantime I just started writing stories for magazines because I understood that there was a big audience. If a magazine got in the hands of a family, usually five to 10 people would read it, so unlike a book where just one person reads it. So I got really motivated and I wrote for a variety of magazines and then just still had this urge to write a novel. But it's hard to write a novel.
Speaker 1:And it takes a lot of time when you're doing all of this other stuff too. I mean, this is on top of your regular job and you know you've been fostering through this time and all of this stuff, like that's a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it probably took. By the time it got to publication from when I wrote the first words is about five years, you know, and there were probably like 25 iterations of the book at least. So it does. It just takes a while to like rewrite and trying to figure out like what is the meat of the story and what are the good things. That kind of come out when you're initially writing that naturally, and then you go like, oh, that's a really good idea. Okay, I'm going to focus on that one a little more. So, yeah, it was a long process, but it was. I loved writing this book. This is my fourth one that I've written. I'm the only one worthy of like a public viewing, but, um, but I loved writing this book. I never got tired of the characters and I just really enjoyed trying to make it, you know, the best it could be. So, uh, it just took a while.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, I mean that is what it takes, though. With anything I mean you think about anything that you do you have to learn, you have to practice, you have to go through those seasons, right, like I mean that's true with anything. You don't just jump in and automatically know how to do everything perfectly. So I mean that's a big deal to be able to like really pour out in something that you love and being creative or whatever, and then get to a point where you can be published. That's a really I mean that's a really big, big deal. So tell me about the book and who is your kind of intended audience?
Speaker 2:So the book is called Untangling Hope and it's about an 11-year-old girl who's about to turn 12.
Speaker 2:She's been in foster care for three years and she's bounced around a variety of homes because she's had some behaviors that happen when children experience trauma and when the caregivers don't really understand that that's a trauma reaction, they react differently. She was also in our story. It's fictional, but not in all the best homes. So we read a little bit about that. And then she lands in her seventh foster home with a young widow who's previously only taken little kids who don't talk. But the case manager felt that this would be a really good match, and she was right. And so it's about this girl, hope, really learning to belong learning to belong in a family, at school, with friends.
Speaker 2:In the beginning of the book she's really trying to fit in, but fitting in is very different than actually belonging, and so she just has to go on that journey.
Speaker 2:And she's very tired of being in foster care and everyone making decisions for her. So she devises a secret plan to get out of foster care, which is really hard to do when you're only 11 years old and she needs a phone to do it. So then she's also trying to figure out how to get her hands on a phone, and so you know there's a lot of suspense as far as that goes of her. Is she going to get caught doing these things? And in the end, her secret plan is that she has a cousin who is on a reality show out in Los Angeles and this story is taking place in Georgia and she met her when she was real little and she's just wondering if her cousin is going to remember her and she's trying to get a hold of her. And you know I'm not going to tell the end because that will be a spoiler. Yes, I want people to go get the book and read it for themselves, but it adds a little spice to the story, which makes it really fun.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Now I know you said the story is fictional, but the main character, hope. Is she completely fictional or is she based on a real person?
Speaker 2:Well, that is a great question. We have had more than 30, what I like to call bonus children, who've been in our home from the age of eight till 18. We've also had pregnant teens. So we've kind of run the gamut in our family. And Hope is really not based on any one kid that was in our home.
Speaker 2:Some of her characteristics I've kind of drawn from other kids, but she was inspired by one girl that we cared for for two and a half years who truly became part of our family, and it was more that I wrote the book with her as the audience. And what would she want Hope to do? What would she want to happen to her? And she and I read so many books together and we would just laugh and go oh, they're writing about foster care and that's not really legit. That wouldn't really happen in foster care. So I kind of had her on my shoulder like telling me it has to be real, you have to make what could actually happen be happening. So I think her name is Addie and she's been adopted since and she's just now. She's a teenager, she's almost ready to go to college, but I think she would love the character of Hope, if you know, if she meets her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I thought for me reading it, I thought one of the things that it did, I thought it was very realistic and I thought that as a parent it gave me some insight as to what kids may be thinking at different points in their journey or as they're trying to fit in. Even my kids that have been at home for a long time are a bit more settled. But as they enter middle school right, and are going to school and trying to fit in and belong and all of those things, just to kind of get into their mindset a little bit because I'm very removed from middle school and so, you know, to be able to kind of jump into their mind I thought was great perspective for me as a parent to remember what that age is like, what the hardships that they're going through, and especially kids that have endured trauma or, you know, have that sort of background or are maybe bouncing around from home to home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think Hope the character is she's kind of waiting for the next shoe to drop, you know she thinks, okay, this will never last. This lady's not really that nice, you know, and she's trying to navigate that whole thing. So I've heard from other people too that, like, what she says is not always what she's thinking, which is, you know, interesting juxtaposition of you know, which might be like what we all do sometimes, right, sure.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. Well, I mean, and I think that for kids who have experienced harm, getting into their real thoughts is a very vulnerable thing, and so they want to be able to, and and so they want to be able to speak, to control what comes out in some sense, so that it protects their real feelings, their real vulnerability a little bit. Yeah, totally agree, but I I think that the way that you wrote this really captured that, that part of it, and it helps me remember that sometimes my kids, even being at home for a long time, are still kind of in that space and as they enter new seasons, as they enter this adolescent phase, I think the way that they navigate their previous trauma changes because their brain changes and the way that they see people changes and the way that they see their peers changes. You know, like all of that stuff changes as they get a little bit older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've heard some. We haven't personally adopted. We've, you know, just fostered a variety of ages but lots of teens, and I do think that they and I do think that they, especially children who've been adopted have to reprocess their adoption at each age and stage and it's like we're never through it. We're just entering into the new version of how they are going to accept it and really coming to grips with their story. And for us as foster parents of teens, and especially pregnant teens, it can be really hard when they're 16 or 17 years old and they know what they want for their lives and they don't want anyone controlling them.
Speaker 2:And we just moved immediately to the role of coach and not so much parent, asking a lot of questions, trying to guide them that way, because, you know, the way you treat a 10-year-old is very different, and then when we add trauma on top of it, that makes things really complex. But it was interesting. We had one pregnant teen who we had quite a few difficult conversations with and, you know, had to ask hard questions of her, and then I wasn't quite sure how she felt about us when she left, but we were able to help her reunify with her dad and have her baby there. And then a few months later she said could you write a recommendation for me for a job? And I was like okay, I think we ended well.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome, but you don't know you know you're just, you're just doing the best you can with them at that time and just trying to help them, you know, move in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have one that just turned 18 and is navigating that young adult phase and it is a whole different. We have some moving into the a whole different. We have some moving into the middle school phase, we have some moving to the young adult phase and it is a whole different ballgame, like you said, at each different phase. So I love that you captured part of that you know this kind of adolescent phase in the book, because I do think that it helps. I mean, it's good for parents to read and I know that's not your target audience necessarily, but I thought it was a great read and I think it would be good for parents to read with their kids because I think they can talk through some things. I think there's some great conversation starters in there. But again, I also think that as a parent, it helped me see things a little bit through the lens of my kids and where they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like that's been the biggest surprise to me, because I literally wrote the book for children. I wanted it to be authentic and really wanted it to be a book that also children would think was interesting. Like that they would want to follow the storyline. And then, initially, if you're writing for the age of somewhere between 9 and 13, pretty much the parents are the gatekeepers of those stories. They're not going to just let any story get into their children's hands.
Speaker 2:So the first people that read my book the beta readers and my launch team were all adults and I was getting this feedback, just like you were saying like, oh my gosh, I learned so much much about foster care and oh, I didn't know that's the way kids were thinking. And it just so surprised me and I thought, wow, if I had tried to like write a book to teach people about foster care, it would have just fallen on its face, right, because it would have felt didactic. Sure, but instead it's just through Hope's story and how her brain you know we say she gets tangled up in her brain or in our trauma world. We call it flipping your lid when you know you get stressed out and you can't really think and how she's trying to learn to not have a tangled brain all the time. And yeah, I just think it's been a fun surprise and journey, as I've watched adults read the book first or say I'm going to read it with my child and then come back and go wow, I've learned so much, so fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you think that there are any audiences I mean in you talking about that, like the reason that I read books first for my kids is to make sure that I am okay with them reading something right, or that something's not especially for my kids, that something's not going to be triggering to them? Do you think there are any audiences that parents need to potentially hold back on? Or, you know, think through hey, would this be triggering for my child in this season?
Speaker 2:Well, so Hope's mom has died in the story. When she was eight years old, or I guess she's seven. Almost eight had died of cancer, so that could be a trigger, although a friend of mine is reading it with her daughter and her daughter's mom passed and she said, you know, it was a similar amount of time in between and she said I think it'll be very cathartic for her. But you know, that is definitely one of the things and I think if children have bounced around homes and not had good homes but I also feel like, depending on what kind of place they're in, you know, if they're still suffering from some PTSD or depression, probably not a good place to read, but it can also be a good then they're able to share.
Speaker 2:And one of my favorite stories that I've heard was one of our advocates in one of our churches shared it with her goddaughter and her goddaughter was like 11 years old and she read the story. And after she read it she was just at the beginning of the story, maybe three chapters in, when she met the girl who becomes like her best friend, sawyer. She started crying and she said, oh, she's going to have to say goodbye to Sawyer. I know that's what's going to happen and she had had a friend who was in foster care in her class, who was her best friend, who got moved suddenly and her family knew that this had happened but she had never really processed it or talked about it. But the book helped her process that in her family and then she went on to give a book report in her class and tell all about foster care and so for her it was a really healing kind of thing and her parents were so happy she read the book because she was able to really emote what had happened and share about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could see that happening pretty regularly. I mean in that, you know, for a lot of our kids it may be something that allows them to process through some of those feelings, but without having to be so vulnerable about their own stories, right, like that they're going along and processing all of those feelings that are stored up inside of them, that are kind of trapped in there sometimes, but without having to come head on with the things that they've experienced. I could see how that would be incredibly healing for kids especially. I think you know, maybe there are, there may be times, I think, with my kids I think it will be a book that we read together, because I think that would it will give them a chance to kind of process.
Speaker 1:I think they will love it, but I think it will give them a chance to process through some things and very connecting activity, right To be able to sit down and experience all of that stuff together, right to be able to sit down and experience all of that stuff together. So I mean, I think it it is a great opportunity for families to come together and really be able to heal in some ways. But I do think that some there may be some parents that want to read through it first, that want to read through it with their kids. You know if, if your kids have experienced some of these things in the past. Well, what is your wish for the book? Like, I mean, I can see so many good outcomes Do you know what I'm saying? Like I can see so many good potential outcomes from, from the story and the hope that it could provide the um healing that it could help with, and even just the knowledge about foster care in general.
Speaker 2:Yep, I mean, obviously I want it to get in as many kids' hands as possible, and not just children who are experienced or have experienced foster care, but really their classmates, so they can have a little more empathy of what's going on and understanding why children might want to hide their foster status and that kind of thing. It's been read in a couple of classrooms, like fifth grade classrooms, which I think when a teacher can read it to a class, they can have that same type of discussion about so many things about foster care, about you know. You know fitting in versus belonging, all the different types of things like in what is really lying. You know if you're not telling the whole truth. You know that there's so many nuances in there that Listen.
Speaker 1:we were having that conversation in my house just this morning.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly so really, that's my wish is that it would get in as many children's hands as possible so that there can be an increased understanding. But then it's kind of gone beyond things like people are putting them in the child welfare offices for people to read, giving them as gifts. Some of our advocates are gifting them to their foster parents to read for themselves, like you were saying, like it's a good adult read, and some of our advocates are also, you know, been given them as gifts to also give them a deeper perspective, I think, on foster care. And of course it would be great if it got in the Jenna Bush book club. That would be a dream of mine, but you know, one can always dream, right?
Speaker 1:Listen you never know, you never know, you never know. And if not this one, maybe the next one. Jonna, exactly, yeah. So what message do you hope that readers take from Hope's story?
Speaker 2:from Hope's story. Well, that life is not really going to always be tied up with a nice neat bow, and obviously there's I've already talked about like the whole theme of belonging, but really just learning to allow sort of your story to unfold. And in Hope's story I can't really give away the ending, but it is not wrapped up with a perfect bow. So people are asking me like what's the sequel? I want more of her story and for me that I want people to understand that is foster care.
Speaker 2:Like we don't always like. I don't know the rest of Addie's story, I just know that she was adopted and seems happy. But that is reality and so that's okay and that's okay for children to understand as well. Like we're not always going to see the end of the story, and I like to say you know, god is the author and finisher of our story and sometimes we're only getting to be part of a chapter or a few chapters of somebody's life and we might not get to see the end. So I am going to have somewhat of a sequel, which I've been working on, but I'm a little bit stuck right now because these stories are really hard to write when you're writing about. Listen I can't imagine.
Speaker 2:It gets me upset and then I'm like, okay, I have to just put it down for right now.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I'm writing another story but the main character is a boy, which is a little bit harder to write about, except I've written fictional stories previously about boys and then the child welfare worker, the case manager Ms G is the link from the two stories, so she'll be his case manager. So that's where the stories will kind of feel similar. But otherwise it's you know, and this boy has a problem that he lies all the time. So listen.
Speaker 1:I am looking forward to this one. I am looking forward to this one. We need to get this out sooner rather than later. Jonna, whatever you need to be able to process and get the writing done, I will be there for you yeah, I think it's a pretty common issue in foster and adoption.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, well, and I mean we've talked about it on the podcast before. You know, lying is a fear response and so a lot of times our kids who live in that constant state of fear, that's the only way that they know to respond about things and that you know I work with some families on, you know, parenting and coaching and that kind of stuff, and we talk a lot about like, not focusing on the lying because it's not going to do any good. My parent coach I had a parent coach when we first got placed with my kids and my parent coach said to me she goes, listen, if you don't want them to lie, don't ask Exactly. I'm like, wait a second, what, what? Like I've never even thought of that, but but it is such a big deal and it's, it is hard for parents to navigate. I think it's hard for kids to navigate because sometimes that stuff just comes out of their mouth. Yeah, it just comes out.
Speaker 2:They don't even think about what they're saying, almost like become an auto response. You know they're eating the cookie and they're like did you take the cookie from the cookie jar? No, I did not. Chomp, chomp, chomp. So, like you, I had to learn. Stop asking the questions and just say hey, hey, honey, next time can you please just ask me and I'll give you a cookie and we let it go and then we're good, we haven't had a confrontation.
Speaker 2:But they're like Ooh, yeah, I got caught, but okay, and then we're way more likely to have the right behavior the next time because we haven't, you know, had them firing off all their stress hormones, you know, trying to defend themselves.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely. But I do think that as a parent, sometimes that lying kind of hits our nervous system right. Where we go oh, we feel unsafe. Right Like this is a no. And so our nervous system reacts and it just becomes this big, big cycle. Anyway, our nervous system reacts and it just becomes this big, big cycle.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that book is needed. Please get to work. Yes, I will. I will take that as my assignment. I'm only on chapter six, I don't know. We're about a sixth of the way through, so there's hope.
Speaker 1:I would imagine, though, that that is a very grueling process, especially when you're writing about topics that are so heavy that going through that writing process is very hard and taxing on you.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think one of the hardest things for me is I don't know if you're familiar with the Enneagram, but I'm a seven on the Enneagram and sevens don't really like to be in their negative emotions. So as a writer, it's kind of difficult because I have to let bad things happen to my characters. So I've had to go on this journey of like all right, is this bad enough? Is this bad enough for my character? Because I really I don't want bad things to happen to my characters. But it's not interesting for people to read unless, like, because bad things happen to us. We, you know, we make poor decisions and my characters have to do that, you know, to sort of come out and redeem themselves at the end. So that's been a really hard thing for me to, maybe harder than for other people, but writing those harder scenes is really challenging. So sometimes I cry when I write them, and I'm not even a crier, but it's just hard to get into the skin of a kid and imagine what they're really experiencing.
Speaker 1:And in your well, not your first book, but in Untangling Hope, I think that really comes out, that the true emotion of the character, I think really comes through really well, and so I'm glad that you're going through that process. I know it's a burden on you sometimes, but I do think that it matters, because I think that that is part of our kids, it's part of their stories. Those heavy emotions, the hard stuff is part of their stories. And if we make light, if we make too light of it, then it's not helpful. Jonna, tell us how people can find you, how they can find Promise 686 and how they can buy your book. Okay, so they can find Promise 686, and how they can buy your book.
Speaker 2:Okay, so they can find me. I have a newly launched website which is my name, jonnasteincom, and it's super cute. I have a little mini boxer on there because I just love dogs and rescue dogs, so you can learn a little bit more about me. There's also a teacher's guide on there for any teachers that would like to use the book in the classroom, and you can order my book from there. You can order it from Amazon, where books are sold I think it's online in Barnes Noble as well and then promise686.org is our website, so you can go there to learn all about what we do, and if you want to get your church involved or organization involved, you can find all about that there. And, of course, you can follow me on Facebook or Instagram just my name, easy to find.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, we're so glad that you're here today. I know people are going to love this book and I'm thankful that you came on to share about it Well thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed talking to you.
Speaker 1:I've put all of Jonna's contact information in the show notes, including a link to the book. I'd love for you to let me know what you think of it if you buy it and read it. Make sure that you subscribe to the podcast so that you get notified each and every time a new episode is posted, and if you have an extra 30 seconds today, would you leave a review? I'd really appreciate it. As we wrap up today, let me pray, lord. Thank you so much for Jonna, lord, thank you for her heart for vulnerable children and thank you for the work that she's doing. Lead each of us to use our giftings for your glory. Lord, give us discernment on how you want to use us. Lord, raise our kids up to know that they belong to, not search for belonging in the wrong places. Lord, help them to know that they are yours, that they belong to you, and, lord, as parents, let us walk in that belonging as well. We love you and we trust you In Jesus' name, amen, thank you.