How We Honor Birth Families While Telling The Whole Story

What if the hardest conversation in your home could become one of the most healing? We sat down with licensed clinical social worker and adoptive mom Susan Paa to talk about how to speak with kids about their biological families in a way that is honest, compassionate, and hopeful. No scripts that erase pain. No platitudes that glamorize harm. Just grounded wisdom you can use tonight.

We unpack the core lens that changes everything: compassion. When we learn the wider context behind addiction, domestic violence, mental health, poverty, and generational trauma, our language shifts from blame to dignity without excusing unsafe behavior. Susan shares why phrasing like recovery is possible matters, how to honor birth family humanity, and simple ways to affirm kids daily—You have your mom’s eyes; your dad’s creativity is in you—so trust is present before heavy truths arrive.

Timing matters, too. Drawing on Erikson and Piaget, we explore why ages eight to ten can be the best window to share a child’s full story: before abstract thinking blooms and identity turbulence hits, facts land as facts and integrate with less shock. We cover how to address sexual trauma wisely by first teaching a healthy framework for bodies, consent, and God’s design, then layering detail with care. Along the way, we model both-and thinking: you can love your first family and name what wasn’t safe; you can miss them and feel secure here.

You won’t get every word right. You can still create a home where every person in your child’s story is spoken of with truth and honor. Listen for concrete language, timing cues, and a faith-shaped posture that holds dignity and safety together. If this served you, subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a foster or adoptive parent who needs fresh courage today.

Find Susan on IG: @paasusan1

Replanted Conference: https://replantedconference.org/

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@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/

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Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/

Transcript

Naming The Core Question

Meet Guest Susan Pa

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Foster Parent Well Podcast, where we have real, candid, faith-filled conversations about all things foster care, adoption, and trauma. I'm your host, Nicole T. Barlow. I'm a certified parent trainer, a certified health coach, and an adoptive parent myself. This is a space where you can find support so that you can care for your kids with a steadfast faith, endurance, and joy. I want you to foster parent well. So let's jump in. We're doing things a little differently today, not a whole lot of small talk because we're diving straight into a conversation that most of us are navigating in real time. How do we talk to our kids about their biological parents and families in a way that honors everyone involved? If you're fostering or have adopted, you already know this is delicate ground. We're holding space for our child's story, their losses, their questions, their loyalties, all while trying to be safe, honest, and respectful of the people who came before us. It's complex, it's emotional. And if we're honest, it can feel really hard to know what to say and how to say it. But here's what we also know our kids don't benefit from silence or from shame. They benefit from truth wrapped in compassion. They benefit from hearing that their story matters, that their families matter, that they don't have to split their hearts in two to love the people in their lives. So today we're talking about language, posture, and perspective. Y'all, I'm kind of raw in this conversation, as these are things that we are currently navigating in our home. But my guest, Susan Pa, she does this with so much grace. Susan is a licensed clinical social worker with her undergraduate and master's degree in social work. She's worked 15 plus years in the field of social work, primarily focusing on addiction and child welfare, including a CPS worker as a forensic interviewer and serving child victims in the criminal court system. Currently, Susan co-leads a foster and adopt parent support group at her church in Texas. She is a proud foster and adoptive parent, having parented 10 kids who came to her home at different ages and stages. She's a reluctant Texan, originally from Atlanta, Georgia. She still misses the trees and trails, you guys. But you can now find her in the air conditioning on her book at a local coffee shop or hanging out with her family. So this is a great time for you to grab a cup of coffee or tea or get in your water for today. And let's chat with my friend Susan Pa. Hey, Susan, welcome to the podcast. Why don't you take a second and introduce yourself to the audience?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Awesome. Thanks, Nicole, for having me. I'm Susan Pa. I'm a licensed clinical social worker as well as a foster adoptive parent. So I have a background in primarily working with in child welfare, both uh as a child protective services caseworker for a few years, and then also on the criminal side of child abuse cases. So within the court system. And then I worked in long-term drug and alcohol treatment. And then I've been a foster adoptive parent, both fostering and adopting through foster care.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

How did you get into foster care and adoption? Like what was it inside of you that said, hey, this is what I want to do for work? And like I think our family needs to step into this as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

You know, I don't ever remember not wanting to be a foster parent. Like I grew up in a church that really promoted it. And we had family, close family friends that had adopted. And I remember begging my mom to be a foster parent, um, like seeing it in the church bulletin and being like, please, mom, can we do this? And so uh I just always wanted to be a foster parent. I didn't want to have bio kids. And when I met my husband in college, he was the same way. And I was like, what are the chances? Um and at the time we were just friends. I was like, well, maybe, you know, I should consider marrying this guy. Um so yeah, so really my passion came from wanting to be a parent first. Um, but in high school, I also started uh volunteering at homeless shelters and doing things like that and just have always just, I think God's just always put that in my heart to have a passion for the vulnerable. So went into social work and then just kind of naturally my career path went in the direction of children and families.

Starting From Compassion

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Okay, I love that. Well, today we're talking about how as parents, right? How as fostered adoptive parents do we talk to our kids about their biological families, about their biological parents and their stories? How do we navigate that? Because it's it's very complex. And so you've seen that from a social work side, but also as a parent yourself. So, you know, how as fostered adoptive parents can we start to talk to our kids about this in a way that's honest, but still honoring like the child's connection to their biological family.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Sure. Yeah. And I think, I think first we have to come at it through um the correct lens, which I think is compassion, right? Yeah. I think we have to hold compassion for our kids' biofamilies. Um, and if that's not the lens in which we're looking at their family, then it's going to be really hard to hold two things.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

To hold two truths. And so I think um just like we have compassion for our kids and their story, a lot of our kids' biofamilies have they were once children too. And a lot of them have very hard stories. And um, I think that's part of the gift of being a social worker is I have worked with parents. Yeah. Um, and I get to know those stories. And and there's a reason our uh our kids need to enter foster care or need to enter adoption because their parents also had hard stories and weren't often given um a fair shot either. Yeah.

Learning Context For Hard Histories

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Well, and sometimes I think as a foster parent, especially there are times when we work kind of closely with the biological family and we may get to learn a lot about their stories. And I do think that that helps us develop that compassion. But there are some times when we don't have that contact, when we don't know the stories. And I think it becomes harder to just naturally have that compassion, right? So, how do we kind of drum up that compassion even when we don't know their story?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah. So I have um I've actually shared this topic at conferences. And one of the things I I tell families is to get to know your uh kids' bioparents struggle in a broader context, meaning uh if our kids, a lot of our kids enter into foster care because of drug and alcohol addiction or mental health issues or domestic violence. Um, sometimes there's sexual trauma in the family, poverty, homelessness, there's a lot of different issues. And I would say get to know uh that uh thing that brought them in, the struggle that brought them in in the broader context. And I think the easiest way to do that, I mean, you can read books, you can watch movies, but if you're like me, we don't have a lot of time to read another book. And so um, so I think one of the easier things to do is to call an agency or nonprofit that works in that area, uh, if it's a domestic violence agency, call that place up and say, Hey, I am a foster parent. I'm an adoptive parent of a child who came to me because of domestic violence issues in their home. Is there someone that I could ask some questions of for about 20 minutes to get to know uh the dynamics? I don't know a lot about domestic violence, I don't know a lot about mental health struggles, I don't know a lot about drug and alcohol addiction. And and get to know because one, it's going to serve you well in developing more compassion. And it's also going to help uh support your child interpret the information about their individual family in a broader context. It's gonna help, it's gonna help you lead that conversation better for them to understand that, hey, this wasn't about me, this was about their struggle, and that's why I don't live with them.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I also think the other thing that that does is it helps us understand the language in that bigger context. I think each kind of sector has its own compassionate language that they like to use. And I think as we step into those spaces and we ask the right questions, then we can learn that language as well. Why is that language so important though, right? Like why, why is it important? Why do all of these different sectors have different words that they like to use?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Well, because I think it goes back to that first question you were asking about compassion.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah.

Why Words And Tone Matter

SPEAKER_00 9:33

I think they are these are people that work uh in a particular struggle or a particular challenge for people. And so if it's the drug and alcohol community, uh one of the big phrases right now is recovery is possible.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

And I just think that's a beautiful phrase because it is. It's it's possible for everyone and anyone, and it's compassionate and it's understanding and it's hopeful. And I think as we talk to our kids about their biological families, our language needs to be compassionate and also needs to be hopeful because God's a God of restoration and redemption.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

And just because maybe our kids are no longer able to live with their biofamily or they're in foster care and it's unsure what's going to happen, it doesn't mean that our kids' biofamilies are without hope. Um and I think the communities that that work with the challenges that our parents face, whether it's domestic violence or addiction or mental health, they have honed their compassionate language because they work in that area. Just like the foster adoptive community, we have our own language. It's because we've needed to, we've had to, and we understand the challenges. And so, yeah, I absolutely agree that it's so helpful to know the correct language because they're using language that comes from compassion. They're also using language that's knowledgeable. Um, and so when you have both compassionate and knowledgeable language, you can hold the both and better. You can hold the truth and the love that exist. And I think that's much more representative for our kids of their biofamily's story and how they feel about their biofamily. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

How do you handle the line? I mean, I think in in the world in general, we like to look at things as black and white, good and bad, right, good and evil kind of thing. But I think most of us understand in this foster care adoption space that there's a lot of gray. Yes. Like a whole, a whole lot of gray. But how do you hold this compassion, right? But not excuse. Like, I don't ever want my kids to feel like if they were treated in a wrong way, that that's okay. Right. That that the the way they were treated um was okay because their parents struggled with addiction or whatever the case may be, right? That that didn't make. So how do you navigate all of those complexities? Yeah, right. So that you're helping your kids understand that they deserve to be treated well and cared for and they deserve to be safe and and loved well, but at the same time hold compassion on the other end.

Holding Love And Truth Together

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah. I well, I think it's really important for us to communicate to our kids that love's not on the table.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

So so they get to love their family and still update the truth. And so for our kids, particularly that are in foster care or adopted from foster care and have concrete memories of their family, um, a lot of times our kids' love will protect them for some from some of the truths that they need to update. And so I think it's really important for us to communicate to our kids, hey, love's not on the table. You you get to love your parents, um, you get to feel connected to them, you get to miss them, you get to wonder how they're doing, you get to wish that you could still be in that family and still be in that family in a way that you live with them. That, none of that's on the table. At the same time, it's gonna serve our kids well to update the truth if they have protected themselves from the truth out of love. And so I think it's, you know, kids write are like you said, a lot of us want to be black and white thinkers, but particularly our kids just because of development. And so I think it's really important for us to develop kind of this both and language with our kids. Two things can be true. Um, that uh you can love them and we can also acknowledge some truths. And so we have to be able to do that within our own heart too.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, which is hard. I mean, that's it's a lot easier to say that than it is to actually walk that out. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

And that's where I think we need to be spiritually fit ourselves to be able to enter into those conversations. Cause if we're gonna try to create that space for our kids to be able to acknowledge what's true about biofamily and still love them, we have to be able to do that first for ourselves, right? It's that kind of often used example of the oxygen mask, right? Like first put the oxygen on yourself first. If the plane is having a problem, then put it on your child. If we're going to lead these conversations well with our kids, we need to make sure that we're in a place spiritually that we know things like um the gospel's real and it and it actually applies to real people and it applies, it applies to people that maybe were disappointed with their choices or that we're angry with their choices or we're frustrated with their choices of how it's impacted our children. And then I think we also have to um know that part of adoption, part of foster care is we are not our kids' only family, whether we still have contact with them or not, that's part of adoption. And and for us to pretend that it's not really does our kids a disservice and it doesn't acknowledge their full story. And I think it sets them up for not being able to have a conversation with us.

Spiritual Fitness And Humility

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. When you talk about, you know, reading the Bible and looking at the gospel like this is real, I think a lot of times we do look at stories and we don't really look at the context around it, and we don't really dig into this is true, and this is why these people we make judgments about why people are doing things and oh, those dang Israelites, they can't ever do anything right, right? And then we turn around and we are doing the same types of things in our own lives, but not cluing into the same. There's uh when you read the book of Jonah, Jonah's called to um Nineveh to preach to the Ninevehites, but he didn't want to go. And we look at that and go, Jonah, why can't you just obey and do what God says, right? But it's the same thing, it's the same thing for us in that the people of Nineveh were cruel, they were really horrific. And how often is that us that we are lacking compassion with our kids' parents and not willing to go into that space because of the things that they've done in the past. But when we understand the full breadth of um the gospel and how far it is reaching and how much of an impact, like God can change anything. God can change any story. And if we truly believe that, it should make us run to those situations that are hard. It should make us run to those um situations that are the most challenging because think about the impact of if the gospel really transforms and you know redeems.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I and I think it's important for us to build that spiritual language for our kids around redemption and restoration. Cause because I think a more accurate, I kind of use both those words, but I think more accurate is the word restoration for what foster option is. It's not redemption. There's not, there's not a savior here, there's not a hero and a villain, there's just people. And we're all saved by God's grace. Yeah. If we're willing to step into that. So I think it's really important for us to develop that language and those stories that are applicable to us as parents, um, like like Jonah and the Ninevites, if that's where we are. Um, but also the stories of restoration that our kids can see, like, like the thief on the cross. Like you never know what God's gonna do with someone's heart, even at the last moment.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah.

Over-Spiritualizing And Accuracy

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Like, like you don't ever know. Um, and they don't need to build up a lifetime of good deeds to be in God's favor, you know? Right, right. Um, so I think it's really important for us as we think about our faith in connection with talking to our kids about their biofamily. I get very nervous um when people over-spiritualize adoption and our kids' bio parent stories. Yeah. Because I think, one, I think it's inaccurate at times how things are communicated. Um, and then two, I think it can set up our kids to have to reconcile a conflict with God that that we put them up against. Um so saying things like, Well, your parents didn't know Jesus then. Well, you don't know that. Like you don't, you don't know their story. Or um I I would just be very careful about how we talk about some of our our parents, our kids' uh parents' choices. Um because a lot of times there is um there's a cycle that exists. There's a disease, like addiction's a disease. Yeah, there's um there's a victim cycle that exists in domestic violence. Like there's some components of mental health that I I think when we kind of chalk it up to sin, I think it's really worth us evaluating. Is that compassionate? And is that true? Is that true? That is there sin of of course, but is that the most accurate depiction of what's happening? Or is it people that are trying to do the best they can and have their own hard story? Um, and is is more the accurate reflection of God's truth and God's love around the idea of restoration, around the idea of the gospel rescuing rather than prescribing what's actually happening. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That may have been yes, yes, no, no, it totally does. And I think, I think it's important for us to understand those truths for our kids and for their parents, but also for us, right? Like I can be saved, I can know Jesus and still get sucked into a cycle where I'm not doing everything right, right? Where I'm yelling at my kids, and all of a sudden that doesn't mean that I don't know Jesus. Right, right. And and the same is true for um our kids and their parents. And so when we create this picture, like everything's going to change in an instant. And listen, there's a lot of things that can change in an instant when Jesus grabs a hold of somebody's heart. But there are also things, the sanctification process is a process. It's not something that everything changes in an instant and stays changed forever, and we don't ever struggle or fight with stuff again.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where most of us land, right? Most of us live in the sanctification of kind of that one degree, what our church calls one degree of glory to the next. Like a degree is a very small measurement of growth. And yet that's how the Bible describes our growth. And so I think we need to offer the same grace and compassion that, you know, if we're still watching our kids' bio parents hopefully grow and change in real time if we're in that foster space. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we we too grow at a degree of glory pace. And some of us are starting at a different starting point. Yeah. Um, or have been on the journey longer. And so, yeah, offering offering that to our families, I think is an important part.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah. How does the way that we talk about our kids' parents, how do our kids internalize that? Like, how do they hear those things?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

You know, I think I think every child's different. And so I think it's really important for us to ask. Good questions for us to have a sense of, yeah, how's my kid internalizing that? And they're not going to get everything right. Um, because we don't get everything right when we have conversations. Sometimes we walk away with something very different than what was said to us.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

And so I think it's important to ask our kids questions like, hey, what did you just hear me say?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah.

How Kids Hear And What They Keep

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Um, so we can hear reflected back what they heard us say about their biofamily. So that way we can go back and update anything that needs to be corrected. Yep. Um, and then also, you know, lowering the barrier of them asking a question because these are hard conversations. Yeah. Uh for both parent and child. I think there's a lot of emotion on both ends around it. I think as parents, we want to do these conversations really well.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

And my experience is a lot of people have anxiety around it because they're like, I don't know how to do this. Um, I when I've talked before to parents, I say it feels like walking on the moon, like Neil Armstrong. Like, that's what it felt like to me. Like, I wonder if this is how Neil Armstrong felt. Like, I'm about to do this really important thing. It's a big deal. And I have nobody to really ask. Like, what was it like for you? Um, and so I think it's important for us to ask our kids, like, hey, what what are you wondering about? Like for our kids that are older or more guarded or or more logical, instead of, hey, what questions do you have? Which I think can get some good responses as opposed to, do you have any questions? After we've maybe shared information about biofamily or we've talked, instead of saying, do you have any questions, that assuming they do, because of course they do. Like, of course they have something. And so instead of do you have any questions, what questions do you have? And that assumes that a positive response. But then I have found that um for older kids, for kids that are more guarded, for kids that are more logical, sometimes just saying, Hey, what are you wondering about? Like, what's floating around in your brain? So that way they don't have the pressure of like, okay, now I got to come up with this official question that sounds like an adult thing for my mom, you know, like yeah, it just it just lowers the bar. And so I think that can really help us um gauge where they are internally. And then also just kind of offering that, like, hey, I'm gonna check back with you in a few days. This was this was a big conversation, or I know there's a lot of feelings, and sometimes it takes me a little while to think and process what I'm thinking and feeling about something. So I'm just gonna check back in with you. That way it allows our kids to know, hey, this is an ongoing conversation. So I think if there's things that we're concerned that our kids are processing inaccurately, or um, we're maybe like, oh, I wish I had said that differently, or I didn't say it the way I wish I had. Your kids live with you. So you can always go back and have the conversation you wish you'd had, or say the thing you wish you had. And you can always just come back and say, hey, you know what? I I felt like I didn't say that the way I wanted to, or I'm not sure if you heard what I was trying to say. This is what I was trying to say. And you can always go back and have those conversations to make sure our kids are going to internally process, but also I think it's also a developmental thing. And so our kids are going to understand in more accurate ways as they get older. Um, and then I think there's just sometimes uh this almost like a developmental stages of processing biofamily information.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

I wouldn't get real hung up on um sometimes what our kids are thinking because a lot of it's just developmentally appropriate. And it's not, it's not maladaptive, it's not an adoption issue, it's not a trauma issue, it's truly, truly a child development issue. And most kids in this stage of development would think about it this way.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah. We're noticing that. So we have our little kids who came to us when they were very little, toddlers, preschool age. Um, they are now coming into their preteen and teenage years. And so the way that their brains process things, the way that they're they're kind of thinking through their history and why they were in foster care and adoption and their biological families, um, it's changing and it's becoming more complex. Like you can definitely tell they're asking questions that are more complex, that are thinking about more sides of the issue. Um, so how do we know, you know, when our kids ask those tough questions, how do we know how much information to give them based on what stage they're in? You know, because I don't want to tell a two-year-old all all the things, right? But when I have my 13-year-old asking me some more detailed questions, I want to make sure that I'm answering her truthfully and fully. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, I'm still not giving her more than her brain or her heart can handle.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah. And I think, I think that question is the like number one question that I run into.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah.

When To Share The Full Story

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Um, because it because it's like that walking on the moon thing. Like I'm looking around and nobody, the majority of other families are not having to have these conversations. Right. This is what truly makes our community unique. And so it's when do I do this? And I don't typically have someone to turn to and be like, when did you do this? You know. So I was at a so I actually have a lot of confidence in this answer from personal experience, both in my family and as a caseworker. Um, so I was at a conference called Replanted in Chicago, wonderful conference if you ever get the chance to go. Um, but I was in a workshop session, a breakout session, and the speaker was an adoptee and an adoptive parent. And the point of her talk was not about what we're talking about, but she did say, as part of her talk, she said, your child needs to know their full story between the ages of eight and 10. Okay. And I was shocked. I was like, Yeah, as a caseworker, as at that point, a foster parent, I was like, Are you kidding me? Like I was a caseworker. I know it, I know the things that are in those files. Those are hard, heavy, mature things. Things that are in that the file. And I was like, I'm gonna tell an eight-year-old this. Um, but then she went on to explain why. And I became a believer, and I have seen it play out well in our own family. And so this is what she explained. And so, to give kind of people that are listening some confidence, um, I'm gonna do a little bit of like social work psychology, deep dive for just a second. Um so she said, uh, she said, Eric, I I don't know if she quoted them, but this is where it comes from. Uh, developmental psychologists, uh, Eric Erickson and John Piaget, their uh developmental theories are so embedded in our culture that like we may not know their names, but like you'll know what I'm talking about when I say this. So um, Eric Erickson has these stages of development through the cycle of a human life. And so, you know, like zero to two, this is the uh he has these conflict stages. And so when our kids are in the um teen years, they enter this identity conflict, right? And we're all like, yeah, we we know that already. Like we didn't need to.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

We see it loud and clear. Yeah, like we get it.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Um and so her point is when we wait to the teen years to tell our kids identity forming information, because that's what information about your biofamily is, whether you're adopted in foster care or you have lived with your biofamily, it's identity forming information. When we give our kids identity forming information, while they're already in a crisis or conflict stage, and that's what he calls it a crisis. So I'm not saying they're like crisis, how we think about it, but in the conflict stage of identity formation, it lands really heavy. It lands harder than it needs to on our kids. Um the second thing is Jean Piaget, another developmental psychologist, talks about how our kids, um, once they hit 12 years old, they become abstract thinkers. Okay. So, right, they're um kind of that what you were talking about with your kids. They're looking at things more multifaceted, they're looking at other angles. When our kids are between that eight to 10 stage, they're concrete thinkers, right? So that's a lot of us know, right, that means, but we're thinking about the facts, like the facts are the facts, and we accept them. Um, and and that's what it is. And so when we tell our kids their biofamily story, when we tell them the full story between the ages of eight and 10, one, it's not as identity forming because they're not in that identity formation conflict, and they're still concrete thinkers. And so the facts land differently than it would when you're an abstract thinker and you're now having to think about it from all different angles.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Instead, it's just like, okay, this is, these are the facts of my story. Um, and so it doesn't land as hard. And it's also what I have found kids are able to integrate it better. Like, just like, okay, just like the other facts of our family. It's not to say that kids, younger kids aren't going to have feelings about it, that they're not gonna be sad or upset or process it in a deep way. They will, absolutely. So don't think that your kids are like, oh, okay. Um, they will process it. It will land hard and heavy. But in my experience, it lands softer and it allows them to better integrate instead of having to try to integrate while they're already doing a lot of complex thinking around a lot of other things.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Um and so I think that that can be really helpful as we think about when do I tell my kids this information? I also tell parents if your child has the maturity to develop that question to ask you, then I think they have the maturity to receive the answer.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah.

Sexual Trauma And Development

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Um, because their brain is already thinking that way. And so I remember the day that my youngest asked me, like, but mom, like he he asked me a question that I thought he wanted to hear his story of adoption again. I forget what he how he phrased it, but and he knew his story. So I launched into it and he liked it because we met him when he was running really fast by us, and you know, and he loves that because he loves to run. But then he looked at me and he said, No, but why do I live with you? And I just thought, okay, I know what he's asking me, and I can stick with the story that I'm comfortable with, which is our family adoption story, or I can tell him the truth. And that's a harder conversation.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Um, and so just acknowledging one that it's hard to have these conversations, but that's not the litmus test on if you need to have it. Yeah. Um it's okay that it's hard. That's one of those both ends that we need to hold as parents. We want to protect our kids, yeah, and we need to be truthful with them. And so I think it's really important for us to hold both those ideas so we don't end up thinking they're in conflict with each other, like, hey, this is hard information, but I need to protect my kids. It's like sometimes we're not protecting our kids from withholding that information. Our kids sometimes like really need to know and want to know. Yeah. And what I have found as both a parent and a caseworker is sometimes even that hard information brings relief.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

It's not that it's not painful, it's not that it doesn't land hard, but sometimes it's like our kids are just like, okay, now I know. Yeah. I was wondering. And there's this natural poverty of information that exists when you're an adoptee or you're in foster care. And so um, when they get that information, it's precious to them. And so that's why it's so important for us to talk in compassion, but it's also important for us to like give our kids the information we know. Um, but the other thing I would say is that sometimes um our kids' stories come with sexual trauma. And I do think that is where we need to be mindful of what is our kids' developmental knowledge of sex before we launch into sexual trauma. Yeah. I think that's really important for us to establish what God meant for sex to be before we introduce this idea, introduce this idea of sexual trauma. So I think sometimes those conversations need to happen later in our kids' development, but not not a lot later, I don't think. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Well, I mean, that creates a whole nother realm of like, like when you're talking about how I introduce sex and whatever in God's design to my kids, yeah, but but that's not the way things necessarily happened in their biological family, right? So for example, if we're helping our kids understand that God meant sex within marriage and their parents weren't married, right? How do you navigate that conversation without creating shame or any kind of negativity towards where they came from versus what maybe your family ideals are in in your home or you know, what what you're teaching in your church, what they're hearing, maybe in some of the more Christian environments that they're in.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah. I I think there's just a tone of grace. I think I think it's not even so much what we say, it's how we say it. Okay. Um, and so I think I think there's just this tone. And so I think, yeah, there's like kind of stock phrases that we might develop around it. Yeah. But I think if the tone is grace, because like my husband will say to me, he's like, God, Jesus died for real sinners, like not in like real sins, not like the small ones that we sometimes think about in like Christian circles, like, oh, I didn't quite tell the truth, or you know, like stuff that really impacts generations and impacts families. And so some things that um that we may kind of consider like a bigger deal, it's like, well, but God doesn't.

unknown 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And so sin is sin and mistakes are mistakes. And so I think if we're coming from it from that space and that tone, I think we're gonna say the maybe not the perfect thing, but we're gonna say the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

You know, I I think our kids are going to hear more the heart than the actual words around that. And these aren't one-time conversations. And so, and they're not even um conversations that just surround biofamily. How do you how do we talk about people just in general? Yeah, you know, like um, because that's gonna set our kids up for feeling safe to talk about their mistakes, um, biofamily's mistakes and our own mistakes. And are we leading with talking about our own mistakes? Um, we have a phrase in our family that uh my husband, who uh works uh as our recovery minister at our church, he talks about we're not God doesn't ask us to be superhuman and he doesn't ask us to be subhuman. We're just asked to be human. And so we're not trying to be less than we're created to be, we're not trying to be more than what we were created to be, we're just trying to be who we were created to be in God's image.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

And that's all of us, um, whether we're trying to walk closely in obedience or not. Like we all at some point came to the gospel, we all at some point came to salvation. And so I think holding that space and having that tone and then um acknowledging that we all make mistakes. I think if we lead with our own mistakes, yeah, um, and we don't set ourselves up as trying to do everything perfectly and well, um, which I tend to want to gravitate towards just as a person and then particularly in the space. Um, but I think if we can lead with our own mistakes, it's going to honor um the truth about who we are, but also honor the truth about our kids' bio families as well.

Managing Our Feelings First

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yeah. What I hear from you is a lot of humility, like the need for a lot of just walking in humility, which is what God calls us to do, regardless of the path that we're walking, right? He asks all of us to walk in humility. And I think all of these conversations that we have with our kids, I mean, not just about their families, but just in general, needs to have, we need to come at it from a lowly place, a place where where we are walking in humility ourselves. Um, well, which kind of leads me into my next question. Like, how do we guard our speech so that when we talk to our kids about these things, we are coming from a place of humility and not from our own frustration or fear or, you know, any of those things that can could change, even if we're using the right words, it could change the tone of the the conversation. So I'll give you an example. Um, we had a situation where one of our kids out of the kind of out of the blue, um, got she got a phone for Christmas and all the screensavers that she put on her phone um were her biological, her and her biological mom. And she does not have contact. They don't, my little kids do not have contact with their biological family. And it caught me off guard.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

And in the moment, I'm having some feelings about another situation that's going on. And and so how do I I want her to feel open? I mean, we have uh an open relationship with her parents, and um, we are very open to that and our kids wanting that relationship. But in the moment, right, I I had some frustrations, I had my own feelings. How do I keep my own feelings from showing up um in that conversation? Because I do like I did have questions about why it felt kind of out of the blue to me. So I want to know kind of where she is, what is going on in her mind that this is the first thing that she runs to, but I don't want to ask in a judgmental way. And I probably, y'all just transparency, full transparency here. I probably did not handle this in the best way when it came up. Um but, but I I I want to have good conversations with my kids. I want to approach things from a place of humility, from a place of respect and honor from where they came from. Um, and a way that honors my kids and they're however they're feeling, because they can feel however they want to.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah. Well, and I love that. I love that that's very real. I think that's the things that we bump into, like on a very practical level when we talk about the gospel. Like these are these are the very like real practical things. Um, and I love what you said at the end there. Like they get to feel how they want to feel. And and you do too.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah, but I gotta control my face a little bit so I don't feel it everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Sure. And so so, but I think both of those are true. Meaning, yeah, I love that you're holding space for your kids to have their feelings.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Because I think that is very true for us as foster adoptive parents, is we want our kids to to get to feel however they want to feel about adoption in their biofamily. I think a lot of us uh know that and try to do that well. I think also we need to honor our own feelings.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah.

Soundtracks For Secure Attachment

SPEAKER_00 41:35

And and we get to feel how we want to feel about that too. And so um I think the best way, one for that to not translate into a negative experience for your child or an experience that you're like, oh, I wish I had handled that differently, is to honor your feelings, is to is to give your feelings some space. If it's not an immediate thing that you need to address, like then, then get your weight. Like that phone and those those uh screensavers aren't going anywhere. Right. So like get yourself kind of earlier when we're talking about being spiritually fit, get yourself in a place where you're spiritually fit to have the conversation. Yeah. And I think one of the best ways to do that is to let yourself grieve. And I don't, I didn't realize coming into this journey how much grief I was gonna encounter for myself. Um, and I've had to really hold a lot of space for grief in a lot of different areas. And I think as much as we want to honor our kids' bio families, and we do, I think we also need to give ourselves space to grieve. I'm not my kid's only mother. I do have to share my kids. That doesn't mean I don't like them. That doesn't mean I don't love them. It just means that, yeah, like other moms, they don't have to hold this space. I do. That's part of adoption, that's part of foster care. Um, that's part of honoring them. And and so grieving that, because that takes energy and time. And sometimes it hurts my feelings and sometimes it's frustrating. Like, so I I think just allowing yourself permission to be like, I can grieve that I have to have these conversations. I can grieve that sometimes I feel um like I need to step into humility. Like I can, I can grieve that on Mother's Day, um, it's not just about me. Like, like we get to, we get to grieve those things, just like we want to honor our kids' feelings, we need to honor our own. And I think we do a real disservice to ourselves if we just try to skip over to our kids' feelings and honor theirs and don't honor ours. Because I think if we're not honoring ours first, again, it's that oxygen mask. If we don't honor our our own feelings first, it's going to leak out whether we want it to or not. And so giving yourself the space to grieve, I think is I think is going to set you yourself up to handle that conversation well. And then after you grieve, I think it'd be really helpful for people listening if they haven't really thought about kind of the soundtracks that they have around. Around these conversations. Soundtracks meaning. One of my favorite authors, Johnna Cuff, he wrote this book called Soundtracks. And it's this idea that our thoughts drive our emotions and our behavior. And soundtracks are these thoughts that we're either subconsciously thinking or we're consciously thinking. And we need to really think about okay, what are the things I'm telling myself around my kid's biofamily? What are the things I'm telling myself around the conversations around my child's biofamily? And I think one of those really important soundtracks we need to develop so we can have these hopeful conversations when we want to do them well and not um uh dishonor our kids' biofamily is uh if I, if I can love more than one child, my child can love more than one family.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

And so I think going into that conversation with the phone and the screensaver is that soundtrack of, and my mom actually, I didn't come up with that soundtrack. My mom found it on Facebook somewhere and told me about it. But I thought, how true? Because I think right, a lot of us have more than one kid, and we know that we love all our kids the same. Like having another kid doesn't compete with our love for like, and the same thing for our kids. And I tell our kids a lot, like, hey, God has created our hearts to love so much that that love is infinite. Yeah. And so you don't have to worry about um loving more than one family, you don't have to worry about loving more than one parent. It doesn't change your love for the other one. And so I think when we step into those kind of conversations where we feel like we got our feelings hurt, and and that's fine. But going into that conversation when we see the screensaver with bio mom, and you're like, I'm doing all this stuff. I just made dinner and I put you to bed and I took you to the doctor, and like I love you so much, and all this is hey, um, they can love more than one family. It doesn't, it doesn't change how much they love me. And so I think developing some like helpful and true soundtracks. Them having conver questions about biofamily doesn't mean anything about my relationship with them or my parenting. That their wanting to know more information or seek that out is not a reflection on their connection with us.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I think sometimes what wells up inside of me, and maybe this is true for other people too, is a fear that that love is gonna pull them, my kids back into an unhealthy cycle, right? Into an unhealthy situation. And so my I have this kind of pull, this divided pull that in in one space, I want my kids to know and love their biological family and to appreciate where they came from. But the other side of me is really wants to keep them safe and headed in a direction that is good for them and their future, right? And and so holding, I think that fear a lot of times drives my emotions about the situation, right? And so, um, you know, how as parents do we navigate that fear within us? Because I think it it changes our responses to our kids a lot of times about their their parents and their stories. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

I think that attachment builds over time. Yeah. And I think it's really important for us to remember that when our kids are navigating feelings and questions and conversations around biofamily, we can maintain connection through that too. Yep. Um, I think it's really important for us to not abdicate our role as foster or adoptive parents within these conversations. Sure. Um, to maintain connection.

Navigating Fear And Staying Present

SPEAKER_01 47:52

And so um as as much as well and and that role is a little bit different. If you're on the foster care side and still a reunification track, right? The way that you navigate your role and the definition of your role is very, very different than if you are an adoptive parent.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

For sure. For sure. Yeah. And I think the foster parents typically it's um it can be a little bit more tricky because things are happening sometimes in real time and they're changing each week depending on the contact. Yeah. Um, and so that's that's sometimes a little bit of a different space with the fear because not only are there questions in process, but there's a contact. And sometimes if that contact's positive or negative, it's creating um a lot of big feelings within our kids. And so I think it's just continuing to be that safe, steady presence for our kids and just letting our kids know, like, I'm here for it. I'm in it. There's nothing you can't not ask me. Right. Um, sometimes I'll say to my kids, like, hey, it's just me. Like when they're like, I don't, well, it's just me.

unknown 48:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

You know, just like lowering that bar of like, right? So, and and then just communicating that, like, I'm I'm present for it. I want to hear these questions. I, I, I'm not afraid of them. And so even if we are feeling a lot of anxiety within ourselves, yeah, like we can right, we can do hard things, right? We can do brave things. And so acting not out of our fear, but out of our hope and out of our courage. And we have the spirit of God in us. And so there is, I have seen God uh walk our family through this space in a way that just takes time. And it's a journey. And so these aren't, these aren't one-time conversations that get wrapped up. These aren't conversations that happen at a certain age and then they've resolved it. Like this is a this is a journey. If you're an adoptive parent, um, and this is where it kind of differs from our foster side, like if it's reunification, like we're on a journey. And so, and so just being okay with that and being okay with um wherever our kids find themselves emotionally and wherever we find ourselves, that we don't let we don't need to let that fear in the moment take over. What we need to do is continue to step towards our kids in connection and love, regardless of how they're feeling about adoption, regardless of how they're feeling about biofamily. Um, they're on a journey. And and I can personally say, like, I've I've seen that change over time. Yeah. And so just knowing that, knowing that, hey, this moment is not the final moment, and this doesn't call all the shots. I think around any topic, sometimes parents get really wrapped up and like, oh my gosh, what does this mean for the future? And I'm guilty of this too. And you're like, well, you know what? They're 10 right now. Like, calm down. Right. Or 17 and they're still figuring things out. Like, guess what? They're not gonna think about this the same way they did when they're 25. And I know that because I don't think the same as I did when I was 17. You know, it's just and just being okay with whatever feels fearful right now, whatever feels unsettled or like it's not going well, you keep showing up. When in doubt, show up. And that's what like there's sometimes things, right, that we're on this journey that's like, I don't, I don't know how to handle this, I don't know what to do. And my default is always make myself available, make myself present, make myself someone that is approachable so my kids can continue to engage. Because if they can continue to stay attached to me in these spaces of processing biofamily stuff, then we're gonna be fine.

One Big Tip: Openness With Honor

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's it's it's a space, it's a clue for us to lean into God and remember his sovereignty and to kind of lean in and trust him more in all of it as well. I think any fear that we have that comes about um is is areas of of unbelief, right? Where we're lacking our trust in in him and his sovereignty um and his hand on on all of it. Um for sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

And that's where I've kind of tried to come to a place of like when I feel anxious, just in the last year, I'm like, when I feel anxious, rather than trying to be like, don't be anxious, trust God. I just have tried to turn it into like, hey, that's a call to prayer.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

That's like almost like it's time to pray. Like when I start to feel fearful and anxious, this is a call to prayer. And in some of those prayers I have seen around this topic get answered immediately. And then some of them are a longer journey. And that's okay. Um, but I think when we feel fearful or anxious, yeah, to your point, we have a God that is sovereign and that we can trust, and he sees a much, yeah, much more bigger picture than we do. And he's left us his spirit, and so we can trust those things.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Yeah, that's good. Well, what would be the one thing as parents start to navigate this with their kids? What is the one tip that you would give them? Like the big picture. Here's the one thing you need to make sure you do as you navigate these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, I think it that humility piece. Yeah. I think just being uh humble, and I think the best way to communicate that is with openness. Um, is to is to be someone that communicates I want to have these conversations.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Um, and I'm present for them, what regardless of if you have positive things to say um around this or negative. And what I mean by positive or negative is not just around biofamily, but around foster care, around adoption, around things that feel personal to me. Like I wish I wasn't adopted. Um, I wish I could go live with biofamily. Like those those things are hard to hear, but we also know that they're true. And so I think that spirit of humility, that spirit of openness, yeah. And I I think that's best communicated through just uh listening, listening really well, kind of that active listening, not just like I'm listening for the words coming out of your mouth, but I'm listening for the heart that's behind it. Yeah. Um, and and I think we can do that by by saying both positive things about biofamily. Um, I think that communicates that openness and humility, and not just the hard truths that we might need to communicate, um, but some of those positive things. Hey, you have your mom's beautiful eyes. Wow, you have your dad's artistic talent. Um, if whatever we know about biofamily that we can communicate positivity, I think that creates openness. I think that creates humility within us. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Well, Susan, I have loved having this conversation with you. I think it's so important for us as foster and adoptive parents to navigate where can people find you if they want to find you?

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Yeah. Well, I just recently joined the world of social media. So congratulations. Welcome. Um yeah, I know I'm a little late to the party. Um, but I'm on Instagram at uh Paw, my last name, P as in popcorn, AA Susan1. And so you can find me there.

Closing Reflection And Prayer

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Awesome. And I will link to that in the show notes, you guys. Uh thanks again, Susan. We really appreciate you coming on. Thank you for having me. As we wrap up today, I just want to say this gently. None of us gets this perfectly right. We're learning as we go, we're holding really complex stories, and sometimes our words and our attitudes don't come out the way that we wish that they would. There's so much grace for us in that. And there is also an invitation to keep growing, to keep softening, and to keep asking God to shape shape the way that we see and speak about our kids' families. Let's close in prayer. Lord, thank you for the children that you've entrusted to us. Thank you for the families that they came from and the stories that shape them long before that they would come into our homes. We acknowledge that this is holy tender ground, and we confess that we don't always handle it with the love and honor it deserves. Would you forgive us for the times our words have been careless or sharp or dismissive or unkind when we're speaking about our children's biological families? Forgive us for the attitudes we've held in our hearts that weren't rooted in compassion or humility. We never want our kids to feel like they have to carry our frustration or our fear. We never want our words to add to their pain. Holy Spirit, we ask that you would guide us, guard our mouths, soften our hearts, give us language that is honest and truthful, but also full of honor and dignity. Help us to see people in the way that you see them. When we feel triggered, overwhelmed, or unsure what to say, remind us that you are with us in these moments. You are the one who gives us wisdom and gentleness. Replace our fear, Lord, with faith. When the story feels uncertain, when the future feels out of control, remind us that nothing is outside of your hands. You love our children even more than we do. You see their biological families. You are at work in those places we cannot see. Help us to trust you with the parts of the story that are still unfolding. Give us the grace to be steady, loving adults who create space for our kids to love all the people in their story without shame or confusion. Let our homes be places of safety, truth, and compassion. And Lord, when we mess up, and Jesus, we will mess up, help us to model humility, repentance, and repair. We surrender our words, our attitudes, and our fears to you. Lead us, Lord, shape us and fill us with your love so that it overflows to our children and to everyone connected to their story. Lord, we love you. We trust you in Jesus' name. Amen.